Generosity and the Web
Have you experienced any acts of generosity on the web ? (Christy1, 2/18/99 10:52:35 AM)
I have been impressed by how generous many of the Java developers are. I have many positive experiences with Applet creators. Their scripts can be freely downloaded. I often find tech people are helpful. I try to figure out things for myself but sometimes I have been stumped. Despite all the obvious commercialism on the web, I have been heartened by the web spirit. There is a pride in technological advancement that seems idealistic and admirable in the web community.
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wes griffin (wesg, 2/18/99 11:05:48 AM)The web was begun with a spirit of openness. The original founders were great at transcending (for the most part) cultural and other barriers and creating a community that fostered helping everyone. These origins are where we get 'netequitte'. It was way cool :) The commercialism came much later, after the Web was already being used by many people. The majority of the Internetters (is that a new culture yet?) are from before the commercialism and know how wonderful the Net can be for helping people.
I don't know if any of you are familiar with open source software, where people give away programs they write for free, but it is in the same spirit, and could only have really taken off with the Net.
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Just like our Noon Quilt Code! It's available free from our site - help yourself :)
Sue Thomas (Sue Thomas, 2/18/99 11:27:22 AM)3 of 10
Christy Sheffield Sanford (Christy1, 2/19/99 9:54:17 AM)Yes, great responses. Thanks. I have heard the term "open source code," which I assume refers to the fact that anyone can access the source code at a URL address. Admittedly, I have seen one or two Java programmers who made this all but impossible. But, I think the original idea was that html would improve and advance. http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/
This is the address for Eric Raymond's famous paper "The Cathedral and the Bazaar." I don't totally understand this, but what I do understand I like. I do often go after a source code I admire and use it as a template. My work looks completely different by the end, but I know I owe a great debt to others.
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Barbara Steinberg (mariarosa, 2/19/99 11:49:58 PM)Well, you can't really access the cgi/perl or the actual java code from the Page Source menu item in a browser. What you access from there is the front-end html that calls the program. The power still lies with the person who wrote the program and can rewrite it for his own purposes.
Many times when freelancers sell a project, let's say using Macromedia Director, they will sell the movie they create, but not the cast, because in the cast is the Lingo code that made the project work. Since programs are not written, they're rewritten, if they gave away their code, the company could adapt it for 1000 different projects, and they'd lose major income. Lots of freelancers will never give away source code to businesses.
There is a lot of free code out there. The man who created perl, Larry Wall, insisted that it remain free to be true to the principles which founded the internet. Bless him. Matt's perl scripts are good examples, and I am thankful for them, but lots of times they don't do exactly what you want and you have to adapt it. They are programming templates. Have you ever needed to adapt perl code and priced what it would cost to hire a programmer to do it? Unless they love you, you won't get that for free.
In Congress, database developers are fighting to get their databases protected under copyright law so if they compile information and develop a way to give users access to it, they can claim that database as their property. Database software is very expensive, and users do not get access to back-end databases.
In the courts, one of the things that might result from the Microsoft trial is that they might be forced to give up the source code to their operating system. That would be an event. Maybe someone out there could fix it. :-)
I also am always reading about some upcoming operating system for networking products (ComOS) is in closed beta, which means the code doesn't work yet, and people who can't talk about it are testing it to fix bugs so that it can go into open beta. Companies take these steps very carefully.
People are not really willing to pay money to join communities, much to my sadness. They will pay money to get network access, database access to a private account, real-time information instead of information that is 20 minutes old... Maybe that is one of the reasons why there are a lot of free community-based scripts out there. I look to others for wisdom.
But have you ever had to depend on a public chat server when a network was clogged? It's hell. Get your own private chat server with software? Machine costs $; chat eats up bandwith so you better get a digital line, dedicated; software? It costs money unless you learn how to write your own java applet or someone will give it to you free. Then you have to go through the work of testing it. Java applets do not work on a lot of browsers. iChat Rooms is not cheap, probabaly because it has undergone all this testing and has a good reputation for working.
The programs that can make serious money for an industry are intensely guarded pieces of property. Serious rocking high-speed network access is out of reach for consumers, who probably don't need it anyway. The ability to broadcast live to more than 60 people at a time in Real Audio is out of reach for consumers.
I see a programming, network access, database access brick wall for consumers that is pretty foreboding.
I have found that programmers will help you a lot if you have done your homework and read and learned their language. If you work, you get them. If you don't, they will brush you off.
For me, databases and networking knowledge are the DNA of interactivity. If I couldn't make friends with programmers, and learn to be functional with it myself, I'd be dead. For me, their generosity is conditional, but I have overcome a lot of fear to meet their conditions.
Gee, I am rambling. :-)
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On third thought... (mariarosa, 2/20/99 1:09:26 AM)...UNIX source code is free. That's probably a good example of open source code.
Maybe my brick-wall analogy comes from my own frustrations with network congestion, and a better analogy might be a great debate between the principle of a free internet for the betterment of mankind and the profit motive deependent on ownership of intellectual property.
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Margaret Penfold (Saada, 2/20/99 6:49:05 AM)I have found so many people helpful on the net I cannot count them. Most of the help has not been about the internet itself, usually I don't know enough to be able to formulate a suitable question, but when I have asked, answers have been freely given. Talking about not knowing the vocabulary, what is 'perl'?.
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Sue Thomas (Sue Thomas, 2/20/99 7:30:47 AM)Perl is what we used to make the Noon Quilt. You'll find the source code itself and info about perl at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/quilt/source/index.html
Sue
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Morten Wang (NettRom, 2/21/99 8:31:25 AM)Time for me to throw my 2 cents into the pool...
Yes, I've experienced acts of generosity on the 'net (since so much of my activity happens other places than the web I'll instead put it all into one basket). I've gotten favours done for myself, and seen other people do it to others. Due to my beliefs in sharing thoughts, ideas and code with others I've also done my share of good deeds (in my opinion, of course).
The common denominator of all the thing I've seen is that if you approach somebody with a good attitude they often approach you with the same. Therefore you'll have to do some of your homework before asking people. RTFM springs to mind. Show them that you have tried, read the documentation, tried again, searched everywhere possible, and then tried again and a lot of people will go out of their way to help you out. Both parties grow because of the event, and work gets done quickly and efficiently.
From what I've read and heard a lot of the philosophy of sharing information, code and ideas comes from the past, when access to the Internet was scarce, documentation was not hugely accessible, and people had to gather in groups to be able to get things done. That's more or less how the 'net works. Nobody owns it, it's people who have agreed to connect each others networks. Well, basically it is...
I try to follow up on this philosophy. When I do something that I feel there is no need for me to keep only to myself I try to document it as good as I can, and then let other people know about it. That way other people feel I am contributing to the community, and I get feedback from others about how I can make what I've done better. I have a couple of JavaScripts out, a tree menu and a remote control, and I get a lot of mail from visitors, both bug reports and general comments. Not one has yet to be anything but positive.
Christy Sheffield Sanford mentioned Eric Raymond's "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" which more or less explains the open source idea in detail. He's also written another paper called "Homesteading the Noosphere" which is a follow-up of TCatB. He's also one of the people behind the Open Source Initiative ( http://www.opensource.org/).
Open Source is something I am considering for my tree menu. The site I have draws around 400-500 visitors a week, and as I mentioned before I get quite a lot of mail because of it. Just releasing the code and commenting/documenting it isn't Open Source in my book though. There has to be a community around it, something Eric Raymond describes in TCatB. The community usually establishes itself by a mailing list, a web site, and then a bunch of people using the product and collaborating on ideas, comments, thoughts and code. You need more than one person working on the code, or else there won't be much of a community to talk of. I am not sure if I can pull it off yet, but I have the ideas.
It's also interesting to see how the media has hooked onto the Open Source idea, and then maybe Linux in particular. Not that most journalists know much about Open Source or Linux but it's either way interesting I think. The next couple of decades will be most interesting.
I guess I'll just step down from the soap box here before I ramble far too much.
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Amanda Oosthuizen (Bid, 2/21/99 3:21:52 PM)I'm not technical so I don't go round using programs and stuff but I am impressed by the generosity of spirit. There are fewer cynics here. There are some. But there are fewer. It's as if people are wandering into a new land and exploring it rather than getting out their guns. Bid.
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Christy Sheffield Sanford (Christy1, 2/21/99 6:01:43 PM)I'm listening. Listening to those who know obviously more than me like Barbara and Morten and Sue. Also, saying, uh-huh, so we have had similar experiences when I read other comments. Thanks everyone.
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Flavia Dzodan (yanna, 3/3/99 6:54:52 PM)well, if it wasnt for the generous spirits i have found through my wandering during all these years, most probably i wouldnt be here today.
when i first came on line, i was ABSOLUTLY lost. i live in a country where very few ppl have internet access (2 % of the population to be more accurate), and that is now, imagine how it was 4 years ago. when i got my first internet account, i was lost and with zero references (I do not belong to the academic scene in argentina, so, i didnt have many ppl to ask about computers, at least not in drama school where i was during those days). so, i just learnt my way using the ol' (but still efficient) empirical method ;-)
however, i found "tutors" that made my life so much easier. ppl who took the time to introduce me to linux, unix, html coding, different programming languages, ppl who spent hours of their time explaining a dummie like me all the basic concepts, at least till they could see i was ready to walk by my own.
a couple of months ago i started a hypertext project, and at that moment i truly learnt the meaning of the word GENEROUSITY (at least on the web). thing is, i asked my isp how much they would charge for say, 10 or 20 megas of space, a domain and an email account. they said U$D 100 a month. thats COMPLETELY out of my budget. now i have my site running (with domain and everything) since an online *friend* (someone whose face i have never seen) is hosting me (for free) in a dutch server. yes, i was SHOCKED when he offered me that chance, but his answer was so simple that it almost sounded logical: he said, i have the resources and you have the need, so, why not?
and, thats not all. someone else is helping me develop a java/ cgi engine for my site (tutoring me in the endless pleasures of indexed databases...heheehe).
my conclusion is simple: in a sense, if it wasnt for all these ppl i have met, i wouldnt be here today. at least not with a project in progress and with all the good expectations that it involves.