Writers and the Web
Do you see the Web as a Medium?
(Christy1, 2/12/99 12:09:46 PM)I have been using the Web as my medium for a little over three years. I realize that others see the Web quite differently. How do you view the role of the web in the writer's life?
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Margaret Penfold (Saada, 2/12/99 4:43:23 PM)1. As a resource
2. As a way of communicating with others
3. As a way of trying out new ideas.
4. As a place for mutual support writing groups. ( a bit chancy this one)
5. As a medium when the technology has evolved further. It is still somewhat too primitive for my tastes.But, I admit, great films were being made in the era of silent movies. I wonder what will cited as the classics of the early net?2 of 19
Alan Sondheim (ASondheim, 2/12/99 9:43:34 PM)As a way of creating an audience and as a way of discourse, more than a means - the latter being more than the web - all sorts of chat applications, MOOs, talkers, even ICQ and programming -
the web extends through javascript into perl, java, all sorts of languagings, performances - as far as classics of the early net - perhaps there won't be anything, and that might be a blessing - the questioning of 'classics' and the canon -
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Christy Sheffield Sanford (Christy1, 2/13/99 11:27:19 AM)I can tell you haven't seen my work, Alan, I consider I am creating the classics :-) I believe the web can sustain works of great art-literature.
I am always discovering great work on the web, often in countries other than the U.S. Some people who are producing really fine work haven't figured out how to promote it.
I like your inclusive list, Margaret. The progress on the Web in the last three years has been impressive. Still a long way to go. To have an image look the same on the Mac and PC doesn't seem like too much to ask.
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Helen Flint (otlaw, 2/14/99 11:48:58 AM)Here's my silly idea
'TO SARAH, MY FATHER'S MOTHER
don't know if it's possible
A FAMILY TREE
eg I am related to
Duke of Wellington
- funny, that.
But also, CLICK HERE
and get
my paternal grandmother -
I never met you, Sarah,
But I bear your name, and favour you
They say.Girl of the mill towns, north of the Colne
With visions as wide as the sky.
Grey Lady, governess, in far off places,
Your Yorkshire aunties wonder if they
Treat you well in Turkestan, Japan and
The Middle East, or if that's where
The weakness of the lung first
Overtook you.I too went to places where my origins
Were laughable. I too saw fire in the trees
And followed it. And I, like you, suffer
The worship of my small son, who
Favours yours they say.middle = me asNOTHING
[ Fengshuism - the empty/blank middle makes the wheel work ]
how I long to add relevant illus and music!Any good?
Outlaw
ps eg I have photo of Sarah with Japanese Emperor's kids!
oops - technotruble again - sorry5 of 19
Christy Sheffield Sanford (Christy1, 2/15/99 10:08:18 AM)Hi, Helen, I love your idea. Geneology is so web and with your story telling abilities, I think this would make a great project. The image sounds like it would lend authenticity and be fun, too.
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Alan Sondheim (ASondheim, 2/15/99 11:57:24 PM)Hi - I think the discussion vis-a-vis classics probably doesn't belong here. At least with my own writing, I think I'm creating a certain kind of flow and I hope it survives. But I've never believed in canons / classics, for myself or anyone - the thought bothers me. A couple of years ago I went back and read a huge number of non-canonic Greek and Latin texts (in translaton) - the more I read, the more I questioned the canon in general - looking for the gaps, othernesses, contradictions. So I ended up with Lucan instead of Virgal for ex- ample. Not that this matters, but the idea of 'classic' does trouble me. And by the way, I _did_ go to your website and loved the work.
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Christy Sheffield Sanford (Christy1, 2/16/99 10:42:14 PM)Canons are constantly being formulated whether we like them or not. Everytime a professor makes up a links list, a canon is being created. On the other hand, canons are made to be broken! Certainly regarding them as sacred is a frightening thought. I agree, so much of what I like in literature is not in the canon. Gertrude Stein was left out of the canon for years. The Beats are now being accepted into the canon. What becomes a classic? And whose classic? One thing that is protective, in a way, is that there are so many different groups on the web with different aesthetics. I was interested, Alan, in your use of the word flow. Could you say more?
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Alan Sondheim (ASondheim, 2/18/99 10:29:17 PM)I write between one and three texts a day - they're ongoing meditations or investigations of cyberspace, using what I'm now calling 'emanants' - Jennifer, etc. They're flows in the sense of con- tinuously making themselves felt, constituted in each instance of presentation... And the content of a lot of the production also deals with flow - liquids, fluxes, ongoing transformations... I've been influenced by feminin ecriture here, and the writings of people like Nicole Brossard or Irigaray.
In relation to canon - I think our difference may be terminological. I think of a canon as more institutionalized than individual choice - it's accepted within the culture as a system of pivotal or defining texts - defining both of our present condition and our 'heritage.' A classic would be a work within the canon... And here, of course, everything is being waged/wagered as well.
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Christy Sheffield Sanford (Christy1, 2/19/99 10:18:19 AM)I, too, often use the word flow in regard to my work. I recently gave a talk and showed work at the Modern Language Association meeting. I spoke of Andrei Linde's fluctuating inflationary universe, which is a much more fluid model for explaining the origin of the universe. If you have a good system that can withstand a gigantic gif, visit Linde's Stanford site and see his big gif http://physics.stanford.edu/~linde/ I spoke of how the web reflects often the big bang theory more than this alternative wave-related model! Fun to think of the metaphors. One can be accused of scientism. This worries me not one whit.
As to canon: Overtime, of course, the individual choices add up. Yes, a canon is not born overnight. It is when a sizable number of individual choices become institutionalized that one has to worry. And institutionalization interests me. Universities, so much involved in this area, are basically conservative. How is that for the generalization of the day?
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Alan Sondheim (ASondheim, 2/19/99 7:33:01 PM)It's true, universities are conservative. But I don't think canonization depends on a sizable number - it's not a quantitative thing, but an institutional/power (in Foucault's sense) production. A canon can be decided by very few as the Great Books series out of Chicago attested. And it usually reflects current milieus and strategies - look at the 'fortunes' of the pre-Raphaelites, for example, or the mannerists or even Chaucer. the first two fascinate me; there's someting 'unwholesome' about them in relation to any form of mercantile institutionalization - something resistive. So they're within or without the canon, depending on different periods' cultural relations and power distributions in general.
For one thing, they query gender on a fairly deep level...
I've never done well in institutions - I've always taught within and without the margins, literally. So I worry the authority in the center, and even the concept of communicative competency there - that universities 'run' on rationalized discourse and discourse models - the seminar, paper, essay, and so forth. (I also spoke at the MLA and disturbed people by _talking,_ not reading, what I had to say.)
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Flavia Dzodan (yanna, 2/19/99 8:44:14 PM)hey ppl =)
well...I am new here and i kinda liked the topic, so, i thought i could say my part.
i like to think of the web as a mythical object, Borges' "Aleph" to be more precise. the object that contains all the visions, all the memories, all the places, all the far away and unreached lands, the lost or gone feelings, the old days, the days to come, the good and the evil, all of them waiting for us to jump on them.
i like to think that i own my unique and rare Aleph and that no one will see the things i see in it, and that some magical or hidden word will be revealed to me by chance.
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Christy Sheffield Sanford (Christy1, 2/19/99 9:38:03 PM)Flavia, welcome! I love it when people make it through the system to post. Initiation rites. The Aleph concept sounds apt. Hmmm, that's an almost religious approach. I do regard what I'm doing as part of some order, some grail, a questing. There is something refreshing and nourishing here. But it isn't everything. I have kinetic needs. I have to jump up and plant things or ride a bike or...right now go to sleep. Goodnight, world!
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Christy Sheffield Sanford (Christy1, 2/20/99 9:38:25 AM)Alan, I think we are both right but this has derailed the topic. The canon is often decided by a few but the canon was certainly opened up to become more inclusive by the demands of women and minorities. As moderator, I have to ask any more canon-related comments be emailed directly to me.
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Sue Thomas (Sue Thomas, 2/20/99 10:09:15 AM)The canon is a topic which perhaps is better dealt with in the Centre conference, since it covers all aspects of what we do here, so I've started a new topic to encompass it at
Shall we move that part of the discussion over there?
Sue
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Christy Sheffield Sanford (Christy1, 2/20/99 10:11:55 AM)Good idea, thanks, Sue.
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Flavia Dzodan (yanna, 2/20/99 3:22:41 PM)well...maybe i didnt express myself properly. i wasnt thinking of it as a religious idea (in fact i live in religious disbelief). it was more of a utopia, or a land to explore.
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Christy Sheffield Sanford (Christy1, 2/21/99 12:11:44 AM)Oh, I wasn't thinking of traditional religion but rather a spiritual approach. Utopian thinking demands an idealistic frame of mind, doesn't it? Maybe not. Right after I read your note, I glanced at my mail and saw an announcement for a November conference in Atlanta on Utopia and Dystopia. A special section of the conference will be dedicated to Works of Jorge Luis Borges, honoring the centenary of his birth (1899-1999). Dystopia? I have to admit, I didn't know what that was. A little research showed me many references to dystopia, the antonym for utopia. By the way, the spellcheck here doesn't recognize dystopia!
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dystopia and spell checkers (yanna, 2/23/99 5:03:23 PM)i have similar problems with spellcheckers, guess thats the reason why i gave up on them ;-)
borges' works are, in a sense, a utopia: his creation of non existant lands or civilizations, his invention of authors, religions, myths (specially those related to nordic legends), his writings on the "perfect library" (the library of alexandria), the aleph. its all part of his personal "cosmogony" (is this the correct word in english? again, my thesaurus doesnt find it), which can be recalled as a "virtual world" (meaning virtual in the sense of non existant beyond the utopia).
borges has been quoted an infinite number of times by those who try to find a similarity in "printed literature" and hyperfiction since his "garden of forking paths" has been regarded as a good representation of the hypertext experience.
when i compared the www with an "aleph" i wasnt thinking of the web as a kinetic place, an area where we generate movement either through interaction or participation (building sites, posting in conferences, communicating with others, etc.). my idea was more of a vast resource of images (not only graphical). probably my background as a writer of theatre scripts has to do with this vision, mainly since i do not write about "concepts" (hey, lets write about love between lonely people who fail to communicate), in fact, its more of an image what gets me started (could be the image of a woman sitting in front of a man without saying a word). in the end, through "linking" those images the reader (and even me) should reach the "concept" (which i completely ignore until the piece is finished). when its about writing, i like to think of the web as a vast perfomance (thus my comparing it with an aleph) where everything (the possible and the impossible) happens. a kinetic place, yes, but one where i can just sit and watch while it presents a unique exhibition. (the www as the ultimate voyeuristic pleasure? -others *offering me a show* while i just sit in the darkness of my room, anonymous, safe, untouchable). ah well...blame my obessions for these ideas ;-)
of course this is not the ONLY vision i have when its about "thinking the web", but this is the way i see it regarding the writing process. obviously, i do not just "sit and watch" (otherwise i wouldnt be posting here or building a site or running servers, etc.). however, when i write, i still enjoy the indulgence of peeping into the character's lives.
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Christy Sheffield Sanford (Christy1, 3/2/99 1:01:42 PM)I, too, often start a piece with an image. Not always. Sometimes, I will know in advance or figure out what I am doing conceptually and shape the piece accordingly. However, I don't like to know everything! What fun is that. Something has to evolve. One of my most successful story-stories came to me as a whole piece. I had to realize it, but it was no fun. I think working methods differ quite a bit.