This discussion took place Sept 6, 1999 at a weekly online discussion presented by Trace Online at LinguaMOO.

Cybele says, "now we get into the heavy stuff, but architectural metaphors abound here."

entropio says, "it is one, really"

Cybele says, "one what? architectural metaphor?"

entropio says, "yes"

Cybele says, "I think it is hyper-dimensional space, it is not a metaphor"

entropio says, "We're in a meeting room"

Cybele says, "it is an example of actual architecture beyond 3 dimensions"

Cybele says, "because we are transcending space..."

MazThing holds head on to stop it imploding.

entropio says, "Your words scroll up a rectangular space"

MazThing says, "But we are in a room"

Cybele says, "but you are in london & I am in wisconsin & we are in the same room!"

MazThing says, "We are in a room together"

Cybele says, "seems like hyper-dimensional to me."

Jan says, "Cynthia and I have used terms such as Intermediate space, or CypherText...to theorize about what MOO space can be..."

Cybele says, "can you say anything more about cyphertext, why that choice of words?"

Jan says, "of cource, it's something different for every participant..."

Jan says, "CypherText is meant to evoke the notion of a Cyber-hyper-text..."

Cybele says, "my point is that we always rely on metaphors to understand, when there is an actuality here."

Jan says, "a three-dimensional text is you wish..."

Cybele says, "that is qualitatively different than us meeting in a room in realtime."

Jan says, "the idea is to come to a new understanding of what this is where we can avoid the problems associated with terms such as virtual reality"

Jan nods at Cybele.

MazThing says, "Do you think we should just see it for itself, rather than 'like' something else?"

entropio says, "My brain functions associatively"

Cybele says, "right Maz, its because we dont do that, that we have a hard time understanding all the possibilities."

Jan says, "yes, I don't see this as a physical representation at all..."

Cybele says, "jan, Im typing in a computer, Im using words, the words have meaning"

Cybele says, "all physical things to me."

MazThing [to entropio]: "Mine too, I love making patterns, I sometimes wish I could weed metaphor out of my writing, but I SEE things as LIKE other things....tis the way it is"

Jan says, "to me it is an intermediate space where text is constructed collaboratively and experienced by the participants"

Cybele says, "not just text...emotions, ideas, relationships, commaradie. these things are beyond text."

MazThing says, "It's different from the text on a page later because it is experienced and participated in"

Jan says, "as such a meeting in a MOO has it's own dynamic which is different from a meeting where people are located in proximity of one another"

MazThing says, "Just as a conversation is different from a recording"

Cybele says, "you mean like somebody can fart & no one smells it?"

Jan grins.

MazThing thinks damn, let slip a metaphor again....

Cybele says, "I think it has a lot to do with how you live your life, Im one who has spent a lot of time in my head....this seems an expansion of that, but with other people"

Jan says, "MOOs have been called text-based VR systems, I've called them that myself, but over time this notion has begun to bother me more and more..."

Cybele says, "it bothers me too."

Jan says, "because I don't see that this is virtual at all..."

Jan says, "to me this is real..."

Cybele says, "but more because of how it limits what is possible."

Jan says, "it's not physical, it's digital, but just as real"

Cybele says, "EXACTLY"

entropio says, "not proto-physical?"

Cybele says, "& I think as participants we begin from an ephemeral relationship to it because of our reliance on metaphor to understand & it is up to us to evolve a more real life relationship to it."

entropio says, "But I understand RL in metaphor too"

Cybele says, "damn entropio, you got a point there. "

Jan says, "so in thinking about what this is we came up with the work CyperText which is mean to embody the user of text whether she be a writer or a reader, and at the same time tie into the notion of ciphers and how we code and decode messages and the self in the MOO space"

Cybele says, "but does it moderate your existence in real life?"

entropio says, "I can see it and live it simultaneously. Life skill, I guess"

Cybele says, "I thinks most people rely on the ideas of rooms & exits etc here because they either"

Cybele says, "cant imagine all that can exist, or dont understand computing. so it maintains a kind of stasis."

entropio says, "What would you like the architecture to be like?"

MazThing says, "Not maybe because they are colluding with the form, suspending disbelief, like being scared of film monsters?"

Jan says, "when we first built Linugua we used physical and geographical terms and concepts in order to make people feel more at home.."

Cybele says, "I have no problems with the architecture, I want open-ended & intelligent evolution of this form."

entropio [to Jan]: "and it works"

Cybele says, "I think it makes it very accessible."

Jan says, "so now we are trying to move from architecture to architexture..." Cybele plays with words all day too.

entropio says, "With the visual interface, do you mean?" MazThing [to Cybele]: "do you see a more open-ended approach co-existing, through a gateway with what exists at present?"

Jan smiles.

Jan says, "well Xpress had two goals..."

entropio listens.

Cybele says, "I think we are all neophytes here, there is a lot to think thru"

Jan says, "one was to make it easier for folks to harness the power of the MOO...but we also wanted to show the two types of text you find in MOO space..."

MazThing nod Jan says, "if you look at the left window where you type you'll see a highly dynamic transgressive type of text...it's not spoken language...and it's not traditional written text...so it's something inbetween which we termed elecriture...to the right you see a different type of text...a much more static text...that changes only slowly...in a much more traditional fashion...it's hypertext...."